InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "I have an Oedipus complex."

the escaped logician (cadence) wrote in discadence,
@ 2008-11-05 12:18:00

Aaugh California
First: I am ridiculously happy Obama was elected. His speech almost made me cry, and I still smile every time I see mention of it.

But I spent a lot more time and agony last night on Prop 8 in California than I did on the president. And I wasn't expecting that!

Upon reflection, that's probably because I was expecting it to be defeated. "Oh, it's election day; Obama will be elected president, and Prop 8 will be defeated. Of course."

Sometimes I have to remind myself that my political sensibilities were formed by Berkeley and the internet, and are not representative of... anywhere else. Including the rest of California, apparently.

Even so, I don't live in California anymore. I actually have to keep reminding myself of the personal impact - that I personally know people who will not be able to get married now and could have yesterday. Because more than that, the wide-scale significance keeps hitting me.

52% of one of the most liberal states in America just voted that what's in people's pants is more important than whether they can make a stable and happy relationship together. I -- just --

[breathes]

I guess this means it's time for that "WTF society, your concept of how relationships work is fucked up" post, for real now.

READ THIS NOTE - What I do not want to hear in response to this post:

- "I support equal civil unions, but think the word 'marriage' should be saved for a man and a woman"

Seperate but equal is not equal. Didn't we cover this already, as a country?

- "At least civil unions are a first step"
- "I think government shouldn't have anything to do with marriage at all; make everything civil unions, and let the churches or whoever decide who they'll marry"

The first is true but depressing. I actually wouldn't mind the second, although it would be nicer if it was workable at all. BUT YOU GUYS - gay marriage was legal in California. This is a step BACKWARD. Sob.

So, just. You can think those things if you want, but that is not the conversation I want to have right now.

(Post a new comment)

	lassarina 2008-11-05 02:28 pm UTC (link)
	There was an interesting post here: http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2008/11/words-of-hope-from-middle-aged-queer.html that...might take the edge off, a little? It offers some hope. I am completely outraged by Prop. 8. I'm so disgusted. aaaargh. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	cadence 2008-11-05 02:38 pm UTC (link)
	Ooh, thanks for that link. I usually read Shakesville pretty regularly, but I've been kind of burned out lately and avoiding political blogs of all sorts. There is still hope for it to be overturned, I guess. I am just... terribly disappointed by people in general right now. -_- (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	lassarina 2008-11-05 02:39 pm UTC (link)
	I am too. So disappointed. But as I pointed out to Laylah below, in just 8 years we've made a 9% gain in voters who are against this sort of crap, in an election with record huge turnout. That's amazing. It means that, slowly, we are getting somewhere. And that's something. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	laylah 2008-11-05 02:32 pm UTC (link)
	hugs Yeah, that's...ow. I'd been getting really kind of optimistic on the issue, just in the way that it's progressive around here and it felt like progress was being made. And to have California weigh in like that -- ;_; My heart breaks for the people whose marriages have just been destroyed by other people's bigotry. (Reply to this) (Thread)

lassarina
2008-11-05 02:36 pm UTC (link)

*gives you hugs*

If it helps at all, even CA's attorney general says that the marriages already performed cannot be invalidated, as the proposition contains no retroactive bans. (which would violate the ex post facto rule, anyway.) =/

The other thing that gave me just a tiny little bit of hope is that in just eight years, the 61% majority that voted for the one man/one woman law that was struck down earlier this year has dropped to 52%. That means we ARE making progress, and we CAN continue to do so.

It's cold comfort, but maybe it's something? =/

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laylah
2008-11-05 02:42 pm UTC (link)

*nod* I
probably can't read much about it right now
because suddenly I'm fighting back tears at work, so

but yeah -- a 2% majority in favor of bigotry is better than an 11% majority, definitely. and slow progress seems to be the order of the day. WA apparently has a "marriage is m/f" law on the books from about ten years ago, and last year we got domestic partnership passed into law (with additional rights/responsibilities granted this year with no fuss). so it's...going to take time to wear down the hate built into the system, but it's possible.

I just thought we were going to do better on this particular round than we have.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	lassarina 2008-11-05 02:44 pm UTC (link)
	I did too. I was so very hopeful and following it so closely, and I really thought that people would be fair and honest and equitable. It crushes me that they weren't. :( more hugs It's just...so sad. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ilyat 2008-11-05 02:43 pm UTC (link)
	I hadn't realized that CA's attorney stated that. I'm glad to hear it in the midst of the rest of the BS. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	lassarina 2008-11-05 02:45 pm UTC (link)
	It was the one bright spot this morning. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	cadence 2008-11-05 03:03 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah. Just - I really wish just wanting all people to be treated equally wasn't completely unreasonably optimistic. The fact that it apparently is, even in California -- ...yeah. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	regicidaldwarf 2008-11-05 02:58 pm UTC (link)
	I know. I, just. Augh. I am so upset that 52% of my state continues in willful ignorance and blind hatred. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	cadence 2008-11-05 03:05 pm UTC (link)
	It's not even my state anymore! But just. I still had faith in it, apparently, and to have that thrown back in my face is so depressing. -_- (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	regicidaldwarf 2008-11-05 03:24 pm UTC (link)
	I did too. I know this is not the end of this battle, nor the be-all-end-all, and we can eventually make this back up and move forward. But it's discouraging. Really discouraging. (Reply to this) (Parent)

sugared
2008-11-05 03:00 pm UTC (link)

I vastly dislike the "Marriage has always been defined as one man, one woman" argument, especially when you realise that marriage as modern society knows it is a relatively recent construct. Even the "traditional" wedding ceremony is a scant 100-150 years old. It bothers me that the people who supported Prop 8 are largely the same people who make these arguments, and I just. Want. To shake them. DID YOU PEOPLE DO NO RESEARCH?!

(well, clearly not.)

I was really hoping that in Cali, at least, sense would prevail, and I am so upset to learn that I was wrong. I expect South Carolina to knock down gay marriage. I somehow expected Cali to uphold it. (Well, I'm glad it does retroactively, but.)

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cadence
2008-11-05 03:08 pm UTC (link)

Not to mention that "it's traditional" is really a terrible reason to continue to do anything, in my opinion. >_> Even if it was true, which it's clearly not!

Those people tend to have this 50's-sitcom concept of marriage, which is really destructive and horrible a lot of the time. In addition to the fact that just... wasn't ever reality.

augh.

California, why.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sugared 2008-11-05 03:11 pm UTC (link)
	The same people supporting Prop 8 would likely be scandalized by a good old fashioned Biblical wedding ceremony. Heavens! (Reply to this) (Parent)

puella_nerdii
2008-11-05 06:35 pm UTC (link)

I understand how you feel; my college's GSA organized this thing last Tuesday (well, the Tuesday before last) where we called voters in California and tried to get data showing that there really were a lot of people who opposed Prop 8, and we were getting some really encouraging results...and then this. And then this.

What gets me about California -- even more than the bans enacted in Arizona and Florida -- is that the state already fucking GAVE people (because guess what, queer-identified people are people, shocking concept) this right. And you don't redact people's rights. You just don't. The whole idea of undoing what's been done, whether or not the existing marriages are going to be dissolved, deeply disgusts me.

What I really hate, though, is how I'm expected to respect the opposing view in all this. No. I understand why this kind of bigotry has developed, and I understand how hard it is to change these deep-seated prejudices, but understanding isn't condoning, and I might know where you're coming from, but that doesn't make you right. Because it's wrong. It's so wrong. And people who tell me that they don't condone my "lifestyle," who tell me that I shouldn't have the same rights that straight Americans receive without even asking for them just because of who I fell in love with -- how am I supposed to not take that personally? I wouldn't dare tell anyone else who they should love or how they should demonstrate that love. Why is it okay for people to dictate that kind of thing to me?

I'm ecstatic about Obama, I really am. But lest we forget that this country has a lot to work on: it does. Oh, how it does.

...I'm sorry about how long this got, but this is deeply personal to me in a way it wasn't in '04 and '06, and -- yeah. I'm angry and heartbroken and hurt. And there will be a LONG post about this, I think.

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cadence
2008-11-05 10:12 pm UTC (link)

Yeah. I... really don't understand it - how taking rights away from people could possibly sound like a good idea to more than the 10% of the population that is batshit insane and will vote for anything. >_>

And so much yes. It's not an intellectual thing! It's people's actual lives, it's not like a difference of opinion on which food is best, or something. It's ... aargh. So much left to work on. Sometimes I forget how much, and it's really nice to forget, but - augh, when I'm reminded.

And don't apologize for length! Because... yeah. Seriously.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

tempetecoeur
2008-11-18 12:36 am UTC (link)

So, as a Californian, I wanted to apologize for my state being (apparently) a self-righteous, homophobic bigot who never learned anything from the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s. As such, I'm sorry.

I feel like California has let down some sort of personified fatherly figure of the Western World. You know, someone who's trying to guide us on our path and ensure that we make the right decisions at critical times in our history. Possibly someone who's gay, or at least has a gay actor as a primary icon.

That's right, I feel like we've let down Gandalf the Grey.

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